Talk:Dirty Talk/Three Brats/June 17th, 2021/Daniel finds Heidi and Milka

Almost missed this with the name change! Everyone seems to be extra on edge here and I'm not sure why. Maybe Milka's guilt will be explained more, but the main thing is I don't think Henry would entertain pulling a gun on his boss/mentor so flippantly. Feels like an overreaction, especially with Henry being a fellow officer, so familiar with the rules AND knowing that Danny is a joker. If some random person were trying to take your sister away under sketchy circumstances, sure, but I think he knows enough about the situation to not seriously be considering such a move. I'd think after being brushed off he might insist to come along anyway as a way to look out for them, but if Danny were to press that it was all business there's surely not a lot Henry could do. Not like he can "pull rank" or tell Danny how to do his job, and if part of the role of a joker is to punish those who are cursed then I don't think Henry would even consider stopping him.

It's not a BIG deal, but tonally pulling a gun does feel like quite a jump. I'm happy to make some edits that you can play with (or just revert) if you like! --Villenia (talk) 04:59, 31 October 2022 (CET)

Ok im with Villenia on this you are making this sound like Henry dont trust his mentor at all and is afraid of him to consider the gun i mean you have admitted before that no matter how rough danny is he is not gonna rape someone or hurt them so im sure somone who is an apprentice wont consider a gun at this moment since he knows the guy unless you implying henry knows that he goes too far or dont trust him at all. to me in sounds like too much of a reaction he has to be concern of course since if his sis did broke the rules that could be bad but to consider a gun is a bit much. --Xephion (talk) 08:24, 31 October 2022 (CET)

Apologies, this post got longer than I intended.

That's all fair criticism. This page is less porn and more drama, so while I love drama, it certainly feels out of place in the overall story, even to me as its author. I think there are definitely ways one could either tone this down, but I guess all of the reactions can be boiled down to few simple words: monkey brain is irrational. None of them are thinking fully rationally, save maybe Danny, who thinks he's doing the right and sensible thing, since he's convinced himself those two have either been branded black, or should be. Milka's guilt is mostly tied to the fact that she did indeed drag Emilia into this, and feels responsible and scared about what could happen, as she said to Heidi at the start. (Emilia being too inexperienced to be able to handle anything too extreme which she fears could happen, in Milka's biased opinion. Shock from seeing a dog fuck a person too.) Still, there is Danny's and Milka's scene up ahead, and I've also left her thought bubbles empty on purpose. How would you change stuff here? The worried (and even depressed) Milka is definitely something I still want to continue exploring in some capacity to add some depth to an otherwise hyper and happy tomboy. She is, after all, a kid with a painful past, but I'm open to suggestions, perhaps even wishing for them at this point since the idea about Milka having this side to her is still kind of a fresh one and doesn't match perfectly with all the paths, especially those written last year.

Edit: to Xephion's point about my admittance to not include rape, a promise I will indeed hold onto, the problem is that the characters (especially the girls who at that point have never been "forced" to wear black) don't know that, so it's understandable for them to be under extreme stress fearing Daniel could indeed use forced sex as a form of extreme punishment, a thing that every Joker likes to do. (Heidi didn't even believe in curses to begin with, so with the reminder of her little rulebreaking experiment at the beach fresh in mind, she's irrationally scared, for example.)

Henry's reaction on the other hand is less about about Danny and more about his sister's safety. Blood is thicker than water and all that. He's having conflicting thoughts about rules versus her sister's potential well-being, rules of the game versus Swedish law, feelings versus rationality, which to prioritize because he's never seen her so scared. Like, Henry sees tears and her sister shaking, so he starts to wonder, are the rules so important that I would allow her to potentially get hurt, and most importantly, "do I have to stop this and try to maybe demand to punish her myself?" Worth also pointing out that while Danny is his mentor and boss, Henry's fresh off the school and only been working under him for a VERY short time, so inexperience and lack of trust play a role too. He doesn't want to hurt Danny and he never would actually shoot him, and he does eventually let his rational side win over so he can keep calmly observing. Still, I've got zero problems with trying to make him less jumpy and more rational throughout the whole scene, so if you want to, you can stab at it. If not, I'll continue writing the second half tomorrow so I can push it out soonish. Changes shouldn't ruin any of my plans for the future, as I've only written small bits and pieces for the follow-up, nor have I even decided if Henry demands to go along or not. -- Innocent Ruin (talk) 11:37, 31 October 2022 (CET)

Edit 2: I just made a few minor changes myself and made a little expansion too. If there's something you'd still change, I'm still happy to take suggestions or let further changes be made to it. -- Innocent Ruin (talk) 13:16, 31 October 2022 (CET)

I added some tweaks and things and pulled out any real thoughts about shooting anyone. The notion still passes through his mind, but as an absurd one. Don't know if that was supposed to be a plot point or not so you can certainly add it back in if needed, but I think the dismissive thought is still plenty of foreshadowing if that is supposed to come up later. Otherwise, if Henry is straight-laced enough to go into law enforcement, I would think he'd respect Daniel's authority as both an officer and a Joker, even if he's worried for his sister.

As for the girls, I'm not sure if Milka should instantly feel she is to blame for anything. Them feeling bad for getting Emilia into trouble and going to wait/spy on Emilia still makes sense as they love to play peeping-tom. But maybe when Danny shows up he throws out a line about them turning one too many newcomers and how they've now pissed off Emilia's mom, and then the girls can freak out, fearing for themselves as well as Emilia as the guilt settles in, and then everything else plays out the same way. Just because Laura blames them doesn't mean the girls would blame themselves, especially having played the game for years, at least not until they're facing down the long hard shaft of the law! lol --Villenia (talk) 16:52, 31 October 2022 (CET)

I'll give the changes a green light. Appreciate the help and the effort! De-escalation is of course the most important aspect of modern police training in the Nordics (as far as I'm aware), so while I would defend Henry to an extent where his brotherly love towards Heidi creates understandable inner conflicts... maybe this change is for the best. The thought of shooting him definitely was too extreme, that much is 100% in hindsight for me. It's not like bullets were gonna start flying either way, not now or later.

That's also a good suggestion regarding Milka's fears; starts as a mere concern, but quickly turns into fear and guilt. It makes even more sense than what I've currently got written, both for what you see and what you don't see yet. It would take quite a bit of editing though 😅 so I'll return to that suggestion later. I'm kind of struggling with a "block" regarding the second half, wondering if it needs toning as well, and never mind the parts I haven't even written yet. Maybe I'll take a break from this page and work on the "persuasion game" while I fish my motivation back from whatever hole I dropped it into. -- Innocent Ruin (talk) 21:27, 31 October 2022 (CET)

Actually, I'll just do a complete rewrite of parts leading up to the arrest, with some additional changes after that, based on Villenia's suggestion. Hopefully, it'll be the final revision of the "first half", and holy fuck this page is getting long, sitting up at 7753 words on my processor. I already got to work on it, so maybe I'll get it out soonish. Maybe not today, since it's a work day. Who knows how much energy and motivation I have once I get home. (Real life sucks.) -- Innocent Ruin (talk) 15:33, 1 November 2022 (CET)

all of this sounds great I'm eagerly waiting to see what you do and man you been putting a lot of work so thank you for all of your hard work. --Xephion (talk) 06:11, 2 November 2022 (CET)

Yay! Yeah, much better! Maybe a little heavy handed with exposition at the start (I was thinking almost literally "hey wanna go spy on her to see if she's in trouble") but I'm just super curious to see where it goes! Great changes! --Villenia (talk) 16:34, 2 November 2022 (CET)