Talk:Dirty Talk/Three Brats/June 26th, 2021/Mommy's Mark - An unexpected visitor/Emilia shows her friends/Heidi makes a distraction for Emilia/Emilia goes home

love it Emilia loving her spade and i mean im surprised in no moment there she mentioned or think about the dog licking her when she was getting excited on the bed? before goinf to the bathtub when she was thinking of what happened that day or when they saw the dog being too excited when they got back since that would make emilia get worried of her mom realizing that she didnt walk the dog or that the dog licked her, it would have been funny if the dog in the excitement did one of those hump jump dogs do when they are excited to Emilia in front of Laura. ok about the options i think 1 and 3 are the ones i would like the most since as good as 2 would be i dont think it would make sense in this path where Emilia has been a sub and never a dom. so i think she would sacrifice again not for their friend this time but more for the carnal pleasure of what happened before. Great work as always love it --Xephion (talk) 03:05, 27 October 2022 (CEST)

I'll hide my uncensored opinion because I don't want to come across as angry towards you as an author. I'm only angry at Laura as a character. Like seriously, good job in writing content that draws emotion out of me, especially towards a fictional character. That's a rare thing indeed, so props to that.

But just out of interest... Is Laura doing this on purpose and being a child-abuser, a "domestic abuser" consciously, or is your version of Laura really too much of a moron to realize Emilia's corruption IS her fault from start to freaking finish? Like seriously, this is what I meant when I said she's so strict and even abusive. What a soul-crushingly evil woman. Laura marked her own daughter with black, using fear and guilt as a weapon, gaslit her, manipulated her, broke one of the strictest rules in the game and got away with it on technicality... And now she is acting like Heidi is the bad guy? What an evil, evil cunt. I pray she gets her comeuppance somewhere down the line because she seriously deserves it. I'll even allow rape and murder if she will! (joking 🤣) -- Innocent Ruin (talk) 04:46, 27 October 2022 (CEST)

Oh, and please don't do the first option. Heidi isn't a kind of character to just lay down and take shit from an abuser. The third and second option make much more sense. -- Innocent Ruin (talk) 04:50, 27 October 2022 (CEST)

I understand that you don't like this version of Laura but technically Emilia was the one who put herself in this path of corruption Emilia always had the choice in the beginning, this is a path of Emilia rebelling every single time, from the very first choice Emilia decided to lie to her friends about the warning and just ignore her mother, then she gets punish and ends up loving it so she decides to get more risky to keep getting punish, yes Laura did manipulate this after realizing that Emilia was loving breaking rules but the fact is Laura only becomes like this after Emilia chooses this path and getting punish is what Emilia wants so badly, Laura approach is very maniipulative but is because she knows that what Emilia wants now letting Emilia do what she wants but under HER direction and control in this path she has become more like a mistress than a mother but this entire path was made by Emilia since in this path SHE LOVE BEING PUNISH, to be honest thats what i love of this path is more like we the player wanted to be super pervertes and always we choose the option of breaking the rules so it makes sense for Laura to evolve from a mother to a mistress. --Xephion (talk) 05:27, 27 October 2022 (CEST)

Good points, and hence why I said Laura is getting away with it on "technicality". As long as Emilia likes it, it's in accordance to the all the rules. But why try to manipulate and lie to Heidi then? She hasn't done anything wrong! And Laura has not taken any accountability for HER own mistakes either, namely getting discovered in the first place! That's why I dislike her personality here so much. I appreciate the kinky scenes with bondage and all that jazz and will gladly self-insert myself into Emilia's shoes (I'm a degenerate, I know) and wouldn't change a thing here, but the build-up and the lack of honesty on Laura's part makes it feel too much like child abuse to me. Personal demons and all that, but I digress. -- Innocent Ruin (talk) 05:51, 27 October 2022 (CEST)

Yeah the first option is harsh cant lie about that so i admit you are right the first option is a bit much but i can see her blaming Heidi and herself so she does this to maybe punish Heidi and herself i don't know,

I cant say what Laura is thinking at this moment, but i can tell you a way she would act like this and not be malicious about it, she Loves Emilia but because of her own mistakes she seen Emilia become someone that loves a very dangerous path but since she has decided stop her at first and failed horrendously all she can do now is act as a mistress to keep Emilia happy and out of danger, so Heidi coming out and trying to erase that symbol make Laura angry because this can make things worse since Emilia is not erasing it herself she likes it a lot, so forcing Emilia to erase it could make Emilia start doing it in secret and that's is so much more dangerous than being public about it since she see Heidi being so against it Laura could be afraid that Emilia will stop hanging out with her friends to keep making this symbols in secret ( I have seen many kids that start a vice of any kind being denied and they start doing it in secret destroying their lives and friendships that try to stop them by force end up making it worse and they get push out of their lives the only way to stop it or at least reduce it is by either convincing the person that is a mistake and they in their own decision decide to change or be understanding and let them enjoy their hobby but with limitations that they agree with, honestly is hard really hard to get out of a vice). and yeah she probably blames herself i hope so at least (and she could be too prideful to admit her own mistakes and she blames Heidi for putting Emilia in this path too maybe is her own pride or her feeling powerless to change Emilia blinds her) but she knows this way will keep Emilia out of danger or maybe I'm just over thinking it and she just loves being a mistress too much and it got in her head i don't know im just assuming... is porn after all so maybe overthinking this is not good in the long run but i want to imagine that Laura is not evil and just a parent who is doing her best to keep her daughter happy and out of danger. --Xephion (talk) 06:23, 27 October 2022 (CEST)

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Hmm. Not the reaction I expected. Potentially fair, just unexpected. Sorry for the wall of text:

I actually wrote this path on your idea IR, that Laura and Heidi would "butt heads". Again, didn't know what that would turn into exactly, this just felt natural based on everything that happened. But I can try to explain where Laura might be coming from based on the options that led here.

If Laura had hoped that Emilia might be a fellow dom one day (something you mentioned, I think that someone who bears a mark (or perhaps black) they can't be a true dom or certainly a joker, if I remember right) I thought that losing that possible future for her daughter might make her bitter, even resentful. The plan before the cabin was to scare Heidi and Milka and guide Emilia. You took the "good" path from there, where Emilia goes home as ordered. I took the "bad" path where Emilia not only goes with her friends, but then sacrifices herself with black. Laura wouldn't have planned for THAT to happen, but if rules are rules, and Danny is Danny, then Emilia was fucked (truly).

Re-reading the Gunnar/Venla scene I understand where you're coming from a bit more. But I'm not entirely sure why Laura was trying to punish Heidi and Milka then. I didn't question it either, I just sorta ran with it! But it is still true that Heidi and Milka were how Emilia got into the game, and Emilia would never have marked herself with black if she wasn't trying to "save" them. I think that's enough for Laura to blame those two girls. Emilia's corruption/defilement was sealed as soon as she chose friends over family, and in a way entirely outside of Laura's control.

From there, Laura gave Emilia an opportunity to try wearing markings at home, to become comfortable with them, to learn to hide them. Emilia instead flaunted them, wore them like clown makeup. And then, for a "secret" game, for Emilia to nearly spill details about Laura's pastimes to Sven (that kind of exposure being the same reason the cabin was planned to begin with) Laura felt Emilia should be punished. I didn't feel that was gaslighting. That decision, Emilia handing over control, was as much dom-sub and mother-daughter bonding as it was a punishment. Of course the shed is also where it really went off the rails, and that was just a silly idea at best. It was sort of Laura saying "fuck it - she wanted to wear black", but Laura did "protect" her daughter in a way by taking away her senses to have her focus only on the pleasure and not who was doing what, but it's easy to argue she dove off the deep end on that one. But Laura, after working out her frustrations with her daughter in the "bedroom", only got riled up again in this scene when Heidi started pointing fingers. So she's again looking to sort things out in the "bedroom" in order to let bygones be bygones.

That said, the real reason for this scene was simple; Conflict is fun. These are all (mostly) the paths that got voted on that got us here, and each one is just an excuse to find more points of conflict. Making that jive with the characters can be legitimately hard. I agree that any mother worth her salt wouldn't allow any single encounter in this whole story, but that would be boring. However I also then can't explain why Laura would be willing to corrupt Ludwig, or pass her daughter over to the farmer to play doctor. I enjoyed all those scenes, but one could argue they aren't befitting a loving mother either. But to each their own. Some enjoy watching tornados and others enjoy bike rides. It's all good.

We can move to talk pages if you want to delve deeper into character motivations and justifications for this stuff. As always, open to rewrites too.

Legitimately, we can scrap the whole scene if you want, IR. Or you can rewrite it from scratch if you like. Not bothered either way. If anything I'm curious to know where you would have taken it. --Villenia (talk) 06:24, 27 October 2022 (CEST)

Firstly, I want to reiterate that nothing needs to be changed or scrapped. And second of all, I appreciate the fact that you liked the idea enough to write about it!

Don't mistake my "dislike" for a particular character for criticism either; it's quite the contrary, even if it may not come across as such. I'm just passionate to the fault! I like to laugh, cry, and feel angry when watching and reading stuff! I hate your version of Laura in the same way I hate any good villain in media, because that's how I see her at this point in this branch; a villain that stole Emilia from her friends, who just wanted to show her how to have fun in her new home! Laura doesn't have to be a "realistic mother" at all either - like you said, my version of her is also far removed from being an ideal mother with her various antics of wanting to trick her husband or wanting to shoot a freaking child-porn video with her daughter on it! - and that makes hating her so much fun for me! Some of my favorite media of all time, regardless of medium and genre, have characters in them that I truly despise, and Laura here certainly is a character who does that to me in an emotional sense. I just wished to understand her motives better, which was the point of my post, and I guess your post here answered most of my questions. If I felt inclined to make changes, I would maybe expand a little on that; a bit of exposition in the form of her thought bubbles here and there, but that's the extent of what I'd be willing to touch here. I like the overall narrative of Emilia becoming hopelessly and uncontrollably horny with her submissiveness after all.

I must also admit that I have made changes to those pages you mentioned since you began writing your content and changed some things too. Nothing major, hopefully, but still. My idea was indeed for Laura to want to punish Heidi and Milka, but whether that could be read in a playful manner of "let's have a bit of fun with roleplay" or be as malicious as "I'm seriously angry at them for dragging my daughter into this" is something that's up for interpretation. Your point about "good" and "bad" path comes to play there perfectly, and I agree with that point fully. It could go either way, honestly. And, not to spoil what I have/had planned for my version of the cabin scene, but… (white text for spoilers, highlight it if you want.) It gets fucking ugly, even despite the fact that Laura never intended it to get ugly. Not "rape" levels of ugly, but still, I will probably never publish it because of how badly it fucks with Milka's fragile psyche.

As for where I would have taken this? Honestly, I don't even know. Sure, I like to write with an end goal in mind when I've working on my paths. I have a very specific idea of how Emilia will lose her doggy virginity, for example, but I just hadn't decided how to get there for a long time! Still, when I'm brainstorming ideas on talk pages, I usually come up with an idea first and think second. If I had to say or come up with something, I would've maybe had Heidi be a little bit braver with how she presents herself in Laura's presence because while I see her as a horny little slut, she is also a bit "bossy" with how she acts around others. Then again, I can't blame her for being afraid either. After all, if I was in her panties in that scene, I would be afraid of Laura too, afraid that she could make me wear a freaking black spade!

Edit: I forgot! My original suggestion was for Heidi to try to wrestle control of Emilia to herself! It's not technically in the poll or the options currently, but she could've perhaps tried to convince Laura that what she is doing is indeed reckless and dangerous, and could indeed end up with a horrible tragedy for Emilia. The bravery I mentioned could come to play in that.

So, all in all, please don't think I'm offended or anything. 😊 I hope my ramblings doesn't discourage you either. Whether it's a a couple of days, weeks, or even months, I'm always looking forward to what you're bringing to the table next. -- Innocent Ruin (talk) 07:33, 27 October 2022 (CEST)

Okay, that's helpful! I'd be up for tweaking Heidi here and maybe making Laura's motives more clear. I thought there was enough subtext but nothing wrong with being more pointed either. And OF COURSE morbid curiosity has now been piqued regarding Milka in your cabin path! That has to come out at some point! --Villenia (talk) 07:43, 27 October 2022 (CEST)

I was waiting to see your response IR before saying anything myself since this one seem like a conversation between you two but yeah i see your point and hell if you like her as a villain thats totally fine and great too since some of my favorite pieces of media the villain is the main thing that makes me love that media, but in my case i see her more like what Villenia said and i might add some of what i said above it i think she is just trying to keep Emilia save too in her own perverted way even if Emilia definitely feels like she is just gonna keep pushing it out of control, after all art is a medium that is represented by the eye of the one watching it as much as some artist hate that is the truth so you can see Laura in this path as whatever you want. but from what we see in this path Emilia wants to go all out and i love it. and same as Villenia I'm very interested in a Milka dark moment from you IR that's sounds really interesting

But seriously Villenia this path is something i truly love so don't feel discourage by me an any way. the least i wanna do is make any of you feel bad this story is one of the last thing keeping me sane in this boring porn world right now seriously there is no good porn lately so thank you both for making my day whenever you both post. --Xephion (talk) 07:50, 27 October 2022 (CEST)

Apologies for that Xephion, I wanted to respond to you too but I kinda ran out of time and had to drive to work. I think you do make good points in defending Laura here, especially when it comes to the kids developing unhealthy vices they want to hide from others. In a sense, it already happened with Emilia when she finally got the opportunity to show her friends, hiding it from her mother. I'm not gonna speculate if it was fear or rebellion, Emilia's fault or Laura's fault, but...

I guess I could make a few suggestions based on your comments and my own thoughts as well, Villenia's comments too! Just in case Villenia hasn't started working on anything yet, that is. (Assuming he even wants to.) Or he can ignore me if he has better ideas, I'm just shooting some ideas out of boredom at coffee room.

Laura's thought of "Emilia, you silly thing, what is wrong with you?!" is a good example of why she could be worried for her daughter, and in my opinion the biggest missed opportunity. She could've blamed herself for being too harsh, or she could've done the same for not being harsh enough with enforcing her rules, and overlooking the fact that Emilia could keep it on in secret. Of course, this could've been left vague in purpose, but I almost feel like it should not have been? And instead of even acknowledging it aloud she turned her attention immediately to Heidi and made excuses like "Pardon? I didn't make her." when in my opinion she most certainly did. Emilia may have let her do it, but Laura is still the one that initiated the punishment. This was honestly the biggest reason why I got "angry" at her personality here, and why I called her abusive and evil. Some honesty and accountability on Laura's part would be very welcome around these two lines I mentioned, even if nothing else gets changed here.

Another thing I would suggest is having Heidi make the same points to Laura that she made to Emilia in an attempt to pull at her heartstrings. Mention the fact that Emilia could've been kidnapped and locked in a cellar, and ask what Laura would've done then? Say something like "whatever you did, it made her want to hide this from you" in an attempt to make Laura question herself.

Regarding option 2, Emilia suddenly becoming a dom for Heidi's sub sounds farfetched to me at face value, but it could make for interesting content, that's for sure! I don't have anything else to say about that, except maybe that "forcing" Emilia to explore other kinks could maybe help all three bond and grow? Like Villenia said, that seems to be Laura's goal here.

Regarding option 3, it honestly feels like the best option to me. Emilia proves to Laura that she doesn't want anything to happen to Heidi, fearing that Laura could do something. It would be a proving opportunity for Laura to show Heidi that Emilia indeed likes and loves this. And finally, it would finally make Heidi accept and embrace Emilia's change, deepening their friendship, maybe even love?

Anyway, just my suggestions on how to handle any possible changes and future. Feel free to ignore them if they suck lol. PS, if you want depressive content for Milka in that path I mentioned, you got it. Scrapped idea: I will probably handle it in a same way Todd Howard handles the question on the disappearance of Dwemer, and never tell exactly what happened, but allude to it and make people make their own decisions regarding what really happened. -- Innocent Ruin (talk) 15:25, 27 October 2022 (CEST)

I will get around to tweaking Heidi and Laura here, so long as I can still naturally get to the same point. But my take on these options were: Option 1: Totally an excuse to get Heidi tied up! But at the same time, a way for her to sacrifice herself for Emilia and prove just how much she cares about her. It would also be a way for Heidi to bargain, to either gain leverage over or negotiate with Laura, to wrestle away control of Emilia as it were. Option 2: If Laura wished her daughter to be a dom one day, Laura could want Emilia to experience what she's missing. If Emilia is in control of Heidi's wellbeing, then it would also help her understand why other people are worried about her. Heidi's willingness to do this also shows her commitment to her friend. Lots of fun interactions too, Milka being either weirded out or jealous that they're spending so much time together, and what if Stella showed up to find Heidi owned by someone else? Option 3: Honestly it was a throwaway option. I do that to myself a lot, put no thought into an option that gets picked, lol. And yet it does fit Emilia's history and offers a way for Laura and Heidi to come to an understanding mutually, so it is fitting. But the "fitting" remark from Laura was about getting Heidi into restraints, lol! --Villenia (talk) 17:24, 27 October 2022 (CEST)