Talk:Vault 69/Meeting/Breeding

Actually, there is a far more effective objection to artificial insemination that what's discussed here. Artificial insemination involves surgically removing the eggs, which causes a lot of damage to the ovaries and, even in the best of cases, diminishes the function of that ovary in the future. In less good gases, that ovary will be permanently out of commission.

On the flip side, a single harvesting of eggs is good for several viable embryos, but the implantation success rate of the embryos using this method is very low. The common practice is to implant 10 or more embryos at the same time, and if the woman is lucky then 1 will make it. (although, there are some cases where more make it. The case of the "octo mom" is one of those cases where 8 of the embryos successfully implanted at the same time.)

There are just a very large number of health complications that can happen with artificial insemination, and it is a method that is highly discouraged by doctors and only used as a last resort in cases where the parents' fertility rate is rather poor for one reason or another and nothing else has worked. Anyone in the healthcare field would be VERY against artificial insemination as an option if there was no actual medically related issue preventing the natural way. Jemini (talk) 12:53, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

I wasn't talking about in vitro fertilization, but artificial direct application of the sperm without sexual activity (which I took from my knowledge of its use in raising livestock as buying sperm is usually less expensive and less hassle than hiring a stud). In this case, the egg is not harvested. I just realized I used in vitro later in the passage when I meant in utero . . . but I just fixed that, and it doesn't directly relate to what we're talking about so, there's that.

Given that, I was hard pressed to find a logical argument Scarlet could use to derail the argument for artificial insemination . . . so I just winged it. With that in mind, if you can come up with better reasons that Doctor Charbonneau or Doctor Romero could use to dissuade the others from artificial insemination without Doctor Whitney (a botanist) or Chief Runningdeer (effectively a zoologist/veterinarian without a degree) knowing would be false; I fully encourage you to make those edits. They would both like to avoid that eventuality for different reasons (Doctor Charbonneau for her experiment, and Doctor Romero because she's a pervert). Either would be willing to lie if they were fairly certain they would not be caught in the lie. I was just having a hard time coming up with something. What you see is the best I could come up with. --Elerneron (talk) 13:15, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

About the animals... so a volunteer has to have the animal implanted and carry to term, after the human host has received the F.E.V.? That seems... untenable. Wouldn't it be a more likely solution that a F.E.V. modified human male sperm could be injected into the impregnated animals, then acting as a kind of retro-virus to modify the animal fetus? Unless women being pregnant with animals (when they should be made pregnant with humans), this could be a viable solution that again leads to scenarios where the women not only have to have sex with Tay, but milk him for sperm for the animals (or force him to fuck them while the ladies "make sure he does it right"). Just a thought. I'm fine with the bestiality, but that's not what we're discussing. Surgically implanting animal embryos isn't the same as women being serviced by animals. --Notsooldpervert (talk) 19:02, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

That isn't what Doctor Romero has in mind. She plans to harvest animal eggs, put them in human women, then have the male animals breed them. In reality the process would work fine on animals, Doctor Romero is just a pervert who wants to see animals mating with human women. --Elerneron (talk) 00:33, 8 October 2019 (UTC)

FEV strains do tend to grant immortality and also mess with fertility. I could see Doctor Romero customizing it to make Tay both very long lived and also incapable of producing male offspring. Tay would forever be forced to impregnate his multitude of daughters. The FEV could be restricted to Tay to prevent "unforseen complications" and thus forcing the issue of repopulation. Not that anyone would notice how long Tay lived until it was already far too late. He could be in his 50s before his unaging was noticed. The lack of son's would be an issue long before that. Doctor Romero could simply say that due to a reaction to a recessive trait on Tay's Y chromosome the odds of a male birth have dropped to slightly less than 1 in 1000 and thus every female in the vault must be impregnated, possibly multiple times. (Yup, pushing this story forward in my quarantine) --Quiller (talk) 04:12, 25 March 2020 (CET)

It's also a possibility that the FEV gives Tay perfect health, and actually greatly reduces his Y chromosome sperm. That would give lots more daughters down the line that he'll have to also breed. That said, the point about the animal breeding being Dr. Romero's perversion wanting to watch it, doesn't preclude the experiment "not working". Unless you just want to see women impregnated with animals, it could be a dual sided breeding program. Tay impregnate female animals, women trying to breed male ones (for genetic diversity, of course). Just because it only works with Tay, doesn't mean the women stop trying (and possibly coming to like it and do it for pleasure), meanwhile, there are no animal eggs implanted in the women to be fertilized. It's all fake so Romero can get her jollies watching volunteers breed with animals. --Notsooldpervert (talk) 04:38, 25 March 2020 (CET)

I'm sorry, my comment ignored the animal genetic diversity bit. Which is listed as Doctor Romero's second major kink. The first is listed as incest interbreeding. Doctor Romero wants women to be bred by animals, but also wants to see Tay breed his mother. My comment was mostly justifying the second. --Quiller (talk) 14:29, 25 March 2020 (CET)

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One thing to keep in mind, that none of the characters have brought up. The Vault is designed to care for 1000 people. Currently it is at capacity. The MC can't just go around breeding everyone, or they will go over capacity and die. They have to control the breeding. Only doing so to replace people who have died. Unless somehow the Vault was set up to account for breeding past capacity. --Telgar (talk) 21:48, 25 March 2020 (CET)

All Vaults start with 1000 residents. It is illogical to assume that it could only support 1000 residents because that wouldn't allow for proper generational investment. There has to be a buffer to allow future generations to form. It has been noted in the games that reproduction is closely supervised to ensure that the Vaults do not become overcrowded and taxed beyond their ability to sustain the residents. One BIG difference with the way I have devised the vault is the inclusion of normal animals and a microcosm to support them. That alone allows for a much higher ceiling to the maximum number of residents in terms of resources as well as potential additional living space. --Elerneron (talk) 22:02, 25 March 2020 (CET)

If I'm remembering right, Elerneron set it up so the vault was at half capacity, meaning that we can have a max population of 2000 --MrPib (talk) 22:41, 25 March 2020 (CET)

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Okay, just brought it up because when doing my research for my addition, the Vault-Tek survival guide listed maximum capacity of a vault to be 1000 residents, with only enough food and resources to support that many residents for however many years the vault was supposed to be sealed.

The way I originally saw it most vaults had full families to include elderly. So they would reach capacity with the younger generation already present, so there would be no need for residents to worry about breeding the next generation until residents started dieing. Then they would selectively breed to replace losses. --Telgar (talk) 22:49, 25 March 2020 (CET)

I didn't realize that. It's shortsighted of the original authors of the franchise then as starting a shelter out at full capacity is not a good idea. --Elerneron (talk) 22:52, 25 March 2020 (CET)

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https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Vault_Dweller%27s_Survival_Guide, it's for Vault 13 but since it's the only one ever published it's considered the Bible for Fallout Vaults. --Telgar (talk) 23:05, 25 March 2020 (CET)

As a very simple solution here we could add a scene where our new overseer looks at a vault map and sees a very large area labeled as "expansion". Remember that this experiment is 1 male and 1000 fertile females. Vault-Tec could have very easily added lots of room for growth. Say enough housing for ten thousand. No additional resources mind, just lots of rooms and common areas. And an endless supply of vault suits. (I had forgotten to sign this) --Quiller (talk) 03:21, 26 March 2020 (CET)

All of the Vaults consisted of different social or biological experiments. It makes sense to me that if this Vault's experiment is breeding, then they would make allowance for expansion. The males might even have been killed off, and the explosion in the Atrium was faked. Now that they've said goodby and sealed things off, they get flooded with gas, cleaned up by the robot caretakers, and when the expansion reaches the male side, they find it empty. --Notsooldpervert (talk) 04:52, 26 March 2020 (CET)

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The experiments had nothing to do with breeding, they were psycologicale experiments. To test what would happen. Vault 68 was 999 males and one female. Vault 69 was 999 females and one male. Other than being mentioned in the Vault-Tek logs, there is no further lore on what happened to them. Vault-Tek wouldn't destroy Vault 68 unless something happened that compromised the experiment, it would be a waste of resources. --Telgar (talk) 05:21, 26 March 2020 (CET)

Unless there were Overseer's Eyes Only logs for Vault 69 stating the "real" experiment was one for breeding a population back from such small numbers. No way it would work with 999 males and one female, so that would be the waste of resources. That said, if the experiment was one girl living among men, and one male living among women, how would they enforce that? They'd just switch Tay and the girl once things calmed down if the Nexus hadn't been lost. I assume the Robotrons wouldn't allow the move, but still, it's not likely. If they adjusted the names, or just renamed the kids, the robots wouldn't be smart enough to know. --Notsooldpervert (talk) 05:28, 26 March 2020 (CET)

They were intentionally placed in the vaults like that, its an experiment which is also why the Nexus was destroyed. If the assaultrons see the vault inhabitants trying to repair the Nexus, they'd most likely kill them with the excuse of putting the vault at risk, but in reality, it goes against the directive that VaultTech gave the Assaultrons. (Prevent them from repairing the nexus)

For how life in Vault 68 is going, both Jemini and Elerneron give a glimpse

999 males and 1 female. What might really happen in such a situation, the 1 girl would be treated as a precious object and not a target of gang-bangs. All of the "sexual relief" would be done in the form of homosexuality. The girl would likely be declared absolutely off limits until she reaches an age at which she can safely give birth (about 15,) at which point she will be allowed to select her partner but she will have to be impregnated. She would have one partner at a time, but might be encouraged to have a different partner for each child for the sake of genetic variation in order to reduce the issues since the children will have to breed with one another. About the only possible (reasonable) variation on this might be attempts at surgically harvesting her eggs for the sake of in-vitro fertilization. Any other course of action would reduce the survival chances of Vault 68. --Jemini

Additional genetic diversity could also be obtained by ensuring that each child of hers was female and matted to additional, unrelated males as men's fertility doesn't have an age limit. That would have to be done artificially, and means that the most logical course of action for Vault 68 is no sex at all until there are enough viable women. Compared to Vault 69 where the most logical course of action for the continued survival of the bloodlines involved is immediate impregnation of as many women as possible, preferably with male children. The male children thing would also have to be done artificially, but is much less important with a single male with a group of females than it is with a single female with a group of males. If one employs sufficient logic, the Vault 68 story pales in comparison (sexually) to the Vault 69 story which is the reason I am writing the one that I am. --Elerneron

--MrPib (talk) 06:29, 26 March 2020 (CET)

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Notsooldpervert. The story is based on the established Vault-Tek lore, which states that it is a social experiment. To be fan fiction with multiple writers you need to do your best to stick with the established lore, so all writers are coming from the same perspective. The lore from Fallout games established what the experiment was. There is no need to change it from a psycologicale to a breeding experiment to tell the story, as the psycologicale result in 999 females one male would be breeding, especially if the male was the Overseer.

As for there being, Overseer eyes only instructions. That does happen in some cases. However the character bios States the Vault Psychiatrist is the person responsible for the experiment, so there is no need for Overseer eyes only instructions.

The lore of the experiment comes from the Vault-Tek secret logs found in the Vault-Tek corporate headquarters, so the likelihood of there being a different experiment than just the psycologicale one wouldn't make sense lore wise to anyone who knows Fallout lore. --Telgar (talk) 07:13, 26 March 2020 (CET)

So the situation with 999:1 ratio for male and female Vaults is canon? That explains why there's a "Vault 69" story on Fanfiction dot net with this premise then. Not that the teen in that story is the overseer (I don't think. I downloaded it to the reader but can't recall actually reading it). --Notsooldpervert (talk) 05:38, 27 March 2020 (CET)

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Yup 100% cannon as was Vault 68. https://fallout.gamepedia.com/Vault_69

Vault 68 is an Easter egg reference to Kama Sutra sex position 68 (Which is a position designed solely for the females pleasure), and Vault 69 is obviously an Easter egg to the sexual position 69. --Telgar (talk) 05:43, 27 March 2020 (CET)

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Well, if that's the reference for Vault 68, then that further backs the idea that females would be protected and practically worshiped in that vault. Jemini (talk) 06:45, 27 March 2020 (CET)

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Vault 69 is sort of canon, it comes from a webcomic called "One man and a Crate of Puppets" written by the guys behind Penny Arcade back in 2008 for the release of Fallout 3. Bethesda was involved in it but the guys had a lot of freedom. Vault 69 was a throw away joke. Just a single panel if I remember correctly. Vault 68 came the next day. --Quiller (talk) 19:00, 27 March 2020 (CET)

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Um yes and no. Yes Vaults 68 and 69 are in the Penny Arcade comic but they are also in the official fallout lore and documents. Vault 68 and 69 first appeared in the fallout bible written in 2002 by the lead writer of the original fallout game. http://duckandcover.cx/features/bible/fallout_bible_0_pdf.zip --Telgar (talk) 21:30, 27 March 2020 (CET)