Talk:Vault 69/Meeting/Breeding

Actually, there is a far more effective objection to artificial insemination that what's discussed here. Artificial insemination involves surgically removing the eggs, which causes a lot of damage to the ovaries and, even in the best of cases, diminishes the function of that ovary in the future. In less good gases, that ovary will be permanently out of commission.

On the flip side, a single harvesting of eggs is good for several viable embryos, but the implantation success rate of the embryos using this method is very low. The common practice is to implant 10 or more embryos at the same time, and if the woman is lucky then 1 will make it. (although, there are some cases where more make it. The case of the "octo mom" is one of those cases where 8 of the embryos successfully implanted at the same time.)

There are just a very large number of health complications that can happen with artificial insemination, and it is a method that is highly discouraged by doctors and only used as a last resort in cases where the parents' fertility rate is rather poor for one reason or another and nothing else has worked. Anyone in the healthcare field would be VERY against artificial insemination as an option if there was no actual medically related issue preventing the natural way. Jemini (talk) 12:53, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

I wasn't talking about in vitro fertilization, but artificial direct application of the sperm without sexual activity (which I took from my knowledge of its use in raising livestock as buying sperm is usually less expensive and less hassle than hiring a stud). In this case, the egg is not harvested. I just realized I used in vitro later in the passage when I meant in utero . . . but I just fixed that, and it doesn't directly relate to what we're talking about so, there's that.

Given that, I was hard pressed to find a logical argument Scarlet could use to derail the argument for artificial insemination . . . so I just winged it. With that in mind, if you can come up with better reasons that Doctor Charbonneau or Doctor Romero could use to dissuade the others from artificial insemination without Doctor Whitney (a botanist) or Chief Runningdeer (effectively a zoologist/veterinarian without a degree) knowing would be false; I fully encourage you to make those edits. They would both like to avoid that eventuality for different reasons (Doctor Charbonneau for her experiment, and Doctor Romero because she's a pervert). Either would be willing to lie if they were fairly certain they would not be caught in the lie. I was just having a hard time coming up with something. What you see is the best I could come up with. --Elerneron (talk) 13:15, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

About the animals... so a volunteer has to have the animal implanted and carry to term, after the human host has received the F.E.V.? That seems... untenable. Wouldn't it be a more likely solution that a F.E.V. modified human male sperm could be injected into the impregnated animals, then acting as a kind of retro-virus to modify the animal fetus? Unless women being pregnant with animals (when they should be made pregnant with humans), this could be a viable solution that again leads to scenarios where the women not only have to have sex with Tay, but milk him for sperm for the animals (or force him to fuck them while the ladies "make sure he does it right"). Just a thought. I'm fine with the bestiality, but that's not what we're discussing. Surgically implanting animal embryos isn't the same as women being serviced by animals. --Notsooldpervert (talk) 19:02, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

That isn't what Doctor Romero has in mind. She plans to harvest animal eggs, put them in human women, then have the male animals breed them. In reality the process would work fine on animals, Doctor Romero is just a pervert who wants to see animals mating with human women. --Elerneron (talk) 00:33, 8 October 2019 (UTC)

FEV strains do tend to grant immortality and also mess with fertility. I could see Doctor Romero customizing it to make Tay both very long lived and also incapable of producing male offspring. Tay would forever be forced to impregnate his multitude of daughters. The FEV could be restricted to Tay to prevent "unforseen complications" and thus forcing the issue of repopulation. Not that anyone would notice how long Tay lived until it was already far too late. He could be in his 50s before his unaging was noticed. The lack of son's would be an issue long before that. Doctor Romero could simply say that due to a reaction to a recessive trait on Tay's Y chromosome the odds of a male birth have dropped to slightly less than 1 in 1000 and thus every female in the vault must be impregnated, possibly multiple times. (Yup, pushing this story forward in my quarantine) --Quiller (talk) 04:12, 25 March 2020 (CET)

It's also a possibility that the FEV gives Tay perfect health, and actually greatly reduces his Y chromosome sperm. That would give lots more daughters down the line that he'll have to also breed. That said, the point about the animal breeding being Dr. Romero's perversion wanting to watch it, doesn't preclude the experiment "not working". Unless you just want to see women impregnated with animals, it could be a dual sided breeding program. Tay impregnate female animals, women trying to breed male ones (for genetic diversity, of course). Just because it only works with Tay, doesn't mean the women stop trying (and possibly coming to like it and do it for pleasure), meanwhile, there are no animal eggs implanted in the women to be fertilized. It's all fake so Romero can get her jollies watching volunteers breed with animals. --Notsooldpervert (talk) 04:38, 25 March 2020 (CET)

I'm sorry, my comment ignored the animal genetic diversity bit. Which is listed as Doctor Romero's second major kink. The first is listed as incest interbreeding. Doctor Romero wants women to be bred by animals, but also wants to see Tay breed his mother. My comment was mostly justifying the second. --Quiller (talk) 14:29, 25 March 2020 (CET)

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One thing to keep in mind, that none of the characters have brought up. The Vault is designed to care for 1000 people. Currently it is at capacity. The MC can't just go around breeding everyone, or they will go over capacity and die. They have to control the breeding. Only doing so to replace people who have died. Unless somehow the Vault was set up to account for breeding past capacity. --Telgar (talk) 21:48, 25 March 2020 (CET)

All Vaults start with 1000 residents. It is illogical to assume that it could only support 1000 residents because that wouldn't allow for proper generational investment. There has to be a buffer to allow future generations to form. It has been noted in the games that reproduction is closely supervised to ensure that the Vaults do not become overcrowded and taxed beyond their ability to sustain the residents. One BIG difference with the way I have devised the vault is the inclusion of normal animals and a microcosm to support them. That alone allows for a much higher ceiling to the maximum number of residents in terms of resources as well as potential additional living space. --Elerneron (talk) 22:02, 25 March 2020 (CET)

If I'm remembering right, Elerneron set it up so the vault was at half capacity, meaning that we can have a max population of 2000 --MrPib (talk) 22:41, 25 March 2020 (CET)

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Okay, just brought it up because when doing my research for my addition, the Vault-Tek survival guide listed maximum capacity of a vault to be 1000 residents, with only enough food and resources to support that many residents for however many years the vault was supposed to be sealed.

The way I originally saw it most vaults had full families to include elderly. So they would reach capacity with the younger generation already present, so there would be no need for residents to worry about breeding the next generation until residents started dieing. Then they would selectively breed to replace losses. --Telgar (talk) 22:49, 25 March 2020 (CET)

I didn't realize that. It's shortsighted of the original authors of the franchise then as starting a shelter out at full capacity is not a good idea. --Elerneron (talk) 22:52, 25 March 2020 (CET)

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https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Vault_Dweller%27s_Survival_Guide, it's for Vault 13 but since it's the only one ever published it's considered the Bible for Fallout Vaults. --Telgar (talk) 23:05, 25 March 2020 (CET)

As a very simple solution here we could add a scene where our new overseer looks at a vault map and sees a very large area labeled as "expansion". Remember that this experiment is 1 male and 1000 fertile females. Vault-Tec could have very easily added lots of room for growth. Say enough housing for ten thousand. No additional resources mind, just lots of rooms and common areas. And an endless supply of vault suits. (I had forgotten to sign this) --Quiller (talk) 03:21, 26 March 2020 (CET)

All of the Vaults consisted of different social or biological experiments. It makes sense to me that if this Vault's experiment is breeding, then they would make allowance for expansion. The males might even have been killed off, and the explosion in the Atrium was faked. Now that they've said goodby and sealed things off, they get flooded with gas, cleaned up by the robot caretakers, and when the expansion reaches the male side, they find it empty. --Notsooldpervert (talk) 04:52, 26 March 2020 (CET)