Talk:Disciplinary Action/Punishment Guidelines
What constitutes "baby doll" pajamas? The kind with feet, or the lingerie? (Forgot to sign) --Notsooldpervert (talk) 07:19, 4 September 2017 (CEST)
Well, google translate failed me again. What I originally thought about was a one piece sleepwear that children used, but a simple image search for "baby doll" shows much more lingerie than what I had in mind. I had something like this in mind: hxxps://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRGnO7df-VDa6mTO-lz0VIEGtzNX4cJsMGKQBpEIs4jzsPQzxHvfg (Change the hxxps for https). What would you call that? I need to edit both the guidelines and chapters with a better name. --Tod Naturlich (talk) 07:46, 4 September 2017 (CEST)
I'd call those "footie pajamas". A "onsey" is what babies wear, these are definitely pajamas. --Notsooldpervert (talk) 08:01, 4 September 2017 (CEST)
Does a second infraction automatically raise the punishment to the next tier? I understand that wearing a diaper again wouldn't have the same effect, but stepping up to the partial nudity would still be effective. For instance, say at the end of the week after wearing a diaper for 2 days, Suzy is distracted in class again, make her go topless or just her panties. Might make for a slower buildup. --Notsooldpervert (talk) 08:12, 4 September 2017 (CEST)
The guidelines are pretty generic and left to the interpretation of the one implementing them, so it really depends on the depravity of the teacher. I do like slower buildups, so I will tend to make as many increments as possible (except when I'm horny, then I tend to just write sex scenes, but with this wiki format, both can coexists). --Tod Naturlich (talk) 04:04, 5 September 2017 (CEST)
Guidelines Suggestions
I think for the Middle Infractions, boys should be punished similarly to the girls. Since they wear pants, the going without underwear means less, so in the controlled nudity, either make them forgo pants and just wear underwear, or make them dress like a girl. Emasculating the boys might be similar to stripping the girls. I think the Invasion of Private Space would be similar for both, just with someone who likes boys doing it.
For the Serious infractions.... Virginity loss means something very different for boys, unless it's anal virginity. There's also making them perform oral sex on a man. That can be done in private so that people may know, but it's behind closed doors.
Since they can't get pregnant, I'm thinking public nudity, possibly with a butt plug. For the steps up, perform oral sex on a man in public, then get publicly ass fucked. Not the same as a girl getting pregnant, but since that would eventually be public knowledge, having the boys do it in public would be on par. Especially if you can make them cum from being ass fucked.
Again, since I'm not personally interested in these, I'd prefer that the protagonist find a willing surrogate to perform the punishment. "I" can oversee it and give instructions to whomever the helper is. Same if you get a female to do the oral on boys for the lesser infractions. --Notsooldpervert (talk) 04:31, 7 September 2017 (CEST)
I updated the guidelines to include punishments for boys. I used a lot of your suggestions. The society I'm portraying in this town is very prudish and hypocrite, that's why they prefer to force a victim to marry her rapist before accepting sex before marriage. They also have a lot of retrogressive ideas about homosexuality, so even if the deacon and maybe even the headmaster have gay tendencies, they will say gay man are no better than the devil. Please comment if you think I went too far or too light on any of the punishments. --Tod Naturlich (talk) 06:04, 7 September 2017 (CEST)
I can see that, but I can also see them blaming the student for "making" them perform a homosexual act. They could act self righteously by publicly condemning it (especially if the boy is "perverse" enough to cum from it) while secretly enjoying it. I never even thought of orgasm denial or chemical castration.
It's easy enough to break the pridefully naked boy by making fun of the size of his equipment. Even if that doesn't work, they'll re-offend and can get something they won't like. --Notsooldpervert (talk) 18:42, 7 September 2017 (CEST)
You're right, but I think they would not write things so explicitly on the document (this is supposed to be a in-world document, after all); but the way the actual punishment would be executed would probably be the way you describe it. As far as the chemical castration I'm still unsure if that is going too far, I would like more opinions on the matter. --Tod Naturlich (talk) 00:51, 8 September 2017 (CEST)
It could also be a secondary punishment that isn't written down, just done in the background "for the good of the comunity". Breed out those dangerous elements. --Notsooldpervert (talk) 03:33, 8 September 2017 (CEST)
It might also be part of the "curiculum" at the satelite school.--Notsooldpervert (talk) 03:35, 8 September 2017 (CEST)
yea, chemical castration is two steps too far --Foalpoots (talk) 04:13, 8 September 2017 (CEST)
You're right, chemical castration it's way to extreme for the actual document, even though it might happen as you said in the special class, depending on how dark the story get once we get there. For now I'll remove it from the guidelines.
Happy to have another commenter, Foalpoots. Please feel free to comment on anything you like or dislike for the story; anything you say will help me improve the story and become a better writer. --Tod Naturlich (talk) 04:34, 8 September 2017 (CEST)
Ok, with the note I saw in the discussion between Tod and DrArlithe over on the Dr's talk page, I thought I might do some of that fine-tuning that the guidelines were said to need with a complete re-write with more legalese as well as a few expansions of scope and specificity to make the document a lot harder to misinterpret. Of course, the current form will be used, with possibly some consideration based on suggestions to make the punishments more equal between the genders. Jemini (talk) 14:25, 3 October 2017 (CEST)
Ok, I have finished my overhaul. There is still plenty of room for minor edits, additions, or fine-tunign though. (You may note that, as DrAlithe complained about, I removed the sexually penetrative punishments for boys from the mid-level punishments and moved them to the lowest tier of the severe level.) Jemini (talk) 22:11, 3 October 2017 (CEST)
Wow! Amazing update to the guidelines. I can't believe I started this story only four months ago and it's already grown so much beyond my expectations. Thanks Jemini, as well as all others that have contributed to improve the story! I took a trip to the past, viewing the first version I wrote of this file, where I only considered punishments for girls and left a lot of things to the imagination. Its amazing how much it has evolved since then, and I'm very happy for the interest it has received.
I love how the new rules for girls in 3rd grade and under work so well with the treatment the nurse is giving the children. Wonder how many virgin pregnancies there will be of children who had no idea anything happening until their panties start getting tight. --Tod Naturlich (talk) 22:20, 4 October 2017 (CEST)
Virgin pregnancies? Can't wait to see that! Both the growing and the insemination.
Would there ever come a point where public nudity is used? Say Liliana, pissed at forced impregnation, continues to act out. Could she be upgraded to having to attend class naked and dripping cum, possibly getting a refill at lunch? Maybe naked and dripping cum for the rest of the year, even outside of school? --Notsooldpervert (talk) 21:36, 7 October 2017 (CEST)
You might want to vary the severity of the cursing. Mild would be appropriate for High School age, but younger than that it might be considered Moderate. Taking the Lord's Name in vain should probably bump it up a level, too, maybe two levels if its especially vituperative or blasphemous. --Notsooldpervert (talk) 20:29, 11 October 2017 (CEST)
I think we could probably say my original version is what Ms. Varano wrote, and then the modified version I just put up were modifications made at the church decon's urging. Jemini (talk) 22:36, 11 October 2017 (CEST)
Now I'm thinking we need a little more information about the deacon. Any suggestions? --Tod Naturlich (talk) 01:30, 12 October 2017 (CEST)
The very moment you asked, I thought up something pretty screwed up that could explain why this whole thing got like this in the first place. He was likely raised in this town, and like most kids at around ages 8-14 he might have experimented with showing his privates around with friends and touching each other's privates. He did all of this with only male friends, and then later internalized the town's messages that this makes him gay, and thus it was highly sinful.
He has not done anything of the sort since, but he has been running from the act ever since then. He has the subconscious awareness that his flock is better kept in line when they believe in how sinful they themselves are, and sex is the one thing they tend to consider as the most sinful thing. In addition to this, he also subconsciously wants them dragged down to his level, and he is also semi-consciously aware of the fact that the town's already small population is dwindling and needs something to reverse this trend.
He is something of a zealot, and for the reasons above he fully approves of these new punishments and is even somewhat aware of what they will inevitably lead to with the clause for escalating with every repeat infraction. Also, Leopold may be one of his childhood friends he showed his penis around with. He has not touched any boys (or girls) sexually since he grew out of that phase of his, but he is so guilt-ridden and afraid and sure he is gay and that's what drove him to suppress his sexuality and go into the church. (also, he may consider criticisms of the new discipline program to be blasphemous. With this background, he may even at some point during the 1st term approach John to join the Sunday school program and extend the school's discipline program to the Sunday school. That could be listed under the "Surprise events") Jemini (talk) 03:07, 12 October 2017 (CEST)
Ok, I pretty much copy-pasted your description into the Deacon character sheet. --Tod Naturlich (talk) 03:55, 12 October 2017 (CEST)
Oohh! I like that. Talk about taboo, he could wind up fucking a little girl on the alter (or just a table in front of the podium) in front of the whole congregation. I can see the whole town being so suppressed that all of the adults (or a lot of them anyway) start to live vicariously through John. Or even volunteer to "help" with punishments at the school or church. Maybe the Decon (should probably be the Pastor if he's the main religious figure. Decons are more like the elders/preacher's help), volunteers and prefers helping with the young boys.
I think he should use a staff meeting at work to request volunteers among the staff to send him a memo (no electronic trail) if they're willing to help and in what capacity (coach helping with boys, or a female teacher with boys and/or girls). He can keep it purely confidential, and when coach gets the boy, maybe keep him after school so he can keep is involvement low key. --Notsooldpervert (talk) 04:41, 12 October 2017 (CEST)
My lack of knowledge into church hierarchy is only matched by my lack of knowledge of religion in general. For some reason I thought a Deacon would be higher up than a priest. I don't even know how to translate all the church positions I know about in spanish (Cura, Párroco, Monseñor, Obispo, Papa, Cardenal, Diácono, Presbítero), much less their relative hierarchy. If you think the position should be changed, just suggest the new one and I'll change it. --Tod Naturlich (talk) 05:07, 12 October 2017 (CEST)
I'm not as familiar with Catholocism. Not sure if they even HAVE decons. I'm pretty sure they're a protestant thing usually with the older protestant denominations. I think Methodist has Elders as do a lot of the more contemporary denominations. Not sure where in America this is taking place. If its the north east we'd lean toward catholic, prebyterian and probably episcopalian. The south it would be baptist, methodist and presbyterian, with quite a biy of church of Christ (not to be confused with Later Day Saints which is Mormon) thrown in. Midwest, presbyterian and methidist seem more the norm, west coast i'm not sure, probably a hodge podge of everything.
The repression they're under makes me think hard corps Church of Christ (which would be led by a preacher/pastor and a group of Elders) or extremely legalistic Baptist (preacher and Decons) though this extreme is unlikely. I live near a town with a large CoC funded college, and judging from the stories i hear about how repressed the students are when they get here (not to mention the shit they get up to when they think they're not being watched: ie girls are sluts and boys are often gay) makes me vote for that. --Notsooldpervert (talk) 05:39, 12 October 2017 (CEST)
Well, for them to be as remote as they supposedly are, they would most likely be either in the mid-west which has a rather small population to begin with, or the north-west where the population is highly localized to the valley between the coastal mountain range and the cascade mountain range, which makes up less than 10% of the total land in the states of that region and you only have to cross the Cascades to be in a totally different world going from a highly populated urban environment to a sparsely populated country environment that is exactly equivalent in population density to the mid-west. That is assuming it's being set in the US. Jemini (talk) 06:01, 12 October 2017 (CEST)
That's true. There are, however, very isolated communities in the south where they tend to have their own rules. I know of at least two towns where african americans are STRONGLY advised to move on. As in, before dark. Like right now, just keep going. There are small towns in the Smokey Mtns where even Federal agents are made extremely unwelcome. They have their own rules, and enforce them without aid from "outsiders". Mostly areas that would be considered "feuding" regions (think Hatfields and McCoys) --Notsooldpervert (talk) 06:23, 12 October 2017 (CEST)
I thought of an extreme punishment for males only. A regimen that trains them to like or even crave anal stimulation/penetration like wearing a vibrating butt plug for days so it constantly stimulates him, or receiving anal sex until he begins to like it (evidenced by unassisted ejaculation). It could also be combined with the severe punishment of dressing like a girl. --Notsooldpervert (talk) 18:33, 6 November 2017 (CET)
It occurred to me that there is no guideline for a student forced or pressured into doing something by an older or more responsible student. I would say that the younger would still need to be punished, possibly as one category less, and the older one instigating it should also be punished but bump it up a category for manipulating others to break the rules. --Notsooldpervert (talk) 02:08, 16 December 2017 (CET)
That's almost exactly what the Displaced Punishments section says, except for increasing the punishment for the encouraging part. Since it's so easy to increase the punishment level, I really don't see a point in making that part of the rule, but if you want to, you can add that to the section. --Tod Naturlich (talk) 02:27, 16 December 2017 (CET)
Hmm... I saw that as more like what happened with the babysitter and her sister, where she got in a fight to protect someone else. The guidelines state that the person who benefits will be punished alongside the one who broke the rules. I was thinking more along the lines of, "Let me copy your homework or I'll beat you up" or "help disrupt the class so the teacher doesn't get far enough to assign homework or I'll spread rumors that you wet the bed" kind of thing. The one who was coerced shouldn't be punished as harshly as the one that did the forcing, and the instigator should be punished more severely for forcing another student to break the rules when they didn't really want to. --Notsooldpervert (talk) 03:42, 16 December 2017 (CET)
I would have to re-read what I wrote, but as I recall I specified 3 likely scenarios where a displaced punisment would happen. 1. it was done to help someone who didn't know about it (the babysitter situation,) 2. it was done to impress someone who didn't know about it, 3. it was done for someone who requested it. The 1st 2 scenarios have a lesser punishment, the 3rd scenario has equal punishments. I suppose a 4th category under displaced punishments can be added for the person who performed the misdeed being coerced or threatened into it.
Just had a thought. The special class lead by the Headmaster includes girls that fall pregnant, either through their own fault, or from punishment. Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of shaming them? Shouldn't they be required to continue with their normal routine despite being pregnant if it was the result of a punishment? Otherwise, there will soon be only boys in the main school lol --Notsooldpervert (talk) 16:20, 27 December 2019 (UTC)
It seems the intention was that they want to hide the fact that the girls get pregnant from their punishment, so they do not want the pregnant girls to be seen by the other students. One of the little contradictory things in the town, have a punishment that makes the kids pregnant but don't want the kids knowing how babies are made. (Actually, the guidelines DID say he was supposed to warn them about how sex harms their purity, but not about how it can make them pregnant.) Jemini (talk) 17:05, 27 December 2019 (UTC)
Hmm.... I do like the idea of knocking them up when they are clueless as to how it happens. I also like the school hallways filled with pregnant lolis. If the kids don't know how it happened, then it's just random fact that girls are getting pregnant, and if any girl does get pregnant that didn't happen through the disciplinary system, they get sent to the special class since they obviously know how it happened and it would keep them from spreading the knowledge. I dunno, I just really like the idea of John walking the halls and eyeing all the baby bumps and watching for flat bellies hoping to find an infraction for them. --Notsooldpervert (talk) 20:23, 27 December 2019 (UTC)
I think the way they see it is that it's better the children associate pregnancy with sinful actions, and not with sexual acts or punishment. Like ending up pregnant is a divine punishment that even the school officials have no control over, so even if someone can hide their evil deeds from the eyes of teachers, they still have the fear that God will punish them. This is why they will make such a big announcement when the first pregnant girl is far enough to show. The headmaster will gather all the students and publicly shame the poor pregnant girl, explaining her condition was due to an extreme fault. Besides, as more and more girls end up with big bellies, eventually they will have to accept them at school, or it would be deserted, so by the end of the year your wish will probably come true.--Tod Naturlich (talk) 20:31, 27 December 2019 (UTC)
If boys are effectively "turned into girls", would the punish-er need to hide his identity? If the boy is a "girl" and expected to be treated as such, up to and including "having a baby", then the one doing the punishment should be seen as punishing a girl. No social stigma should be attached to it, right? For instance, the boy is put in a skirt and now the gay coach is in charge of "her" punishments. He shouldn't receive any more stigma than John doing the same to a girl, either oral sex (giving or receiving) or intercourse (giving, not receiving). --Notsooldpervert (talk) 22:15, 29 February 2020 (CET)
The town ma be told that, but it's hard to truly control people's opinions. So, that consideration can be applied only in cases where the information gets out despite the precautions (and increase the punishment on the "boys" being punished if it was them who is responsible for the leak.) Jemini (talk) 22:22, 29 February 2020 (CET)
Decided it made a bit more sense to have temporary (as in only for the duration of the visit to the office) nudity made sense as a low-level punishment after looking things over a bit. The "controlled nudity" in the medium grade is removing panties or bra while at school in public spaces, and some low-level punishments do require the exposure of the genitals in the office already such as the diaper punishment.
It just didn't make sense to call that a medium level punishment normally but have all kinds of low-level methods to make it happen and also add other things on top of that. By contrast to the diaper punishments, just having them strip for a few minutes is actually less of a punishment overall. Jemini (talk) 19:45, 6 May 2022 (CEST)