Talk:Life Hacks/Hallomod(tod-pre)/Give a somewhat kid appropriate answer to July's question about why your penis is big

Sooo... 2 things. 1. Loki does not appear on any of the other routes. Trying to keep the time-line consistent here, so every encounter with Loki after the first has been you going to him and not him suddenly coming to you. 2. This route was actually supposed to go toward possibly having something go wrong and have Summer start flipping out. That's a little less important than the 1st one though. At least have Xander be the one to think it up instead of suddenly having this literal Deuce Ex Machina out of nowhere. Jemini (talk) 00:43, 16 April 2019 (CEST)

Actually Loki randomly appearing happens in this route in the Xander's Families dining room. I actually got the idea for this from that, He showed up to check on Xander and gave him some ideas on things to do and an upgrade to his life hack. I decided to have Loki clue him in, to show that even with full stats Xander, despite his perfect stats is still not perfect and new at this game, with room to learn and grow, and his hormones could cloud his judgment. Telgar (talk) 18:01, 15 April 2019 (PST)

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No, that WAS the "1st time" I was referring to when I said that, although I suppose the confusion is easy since you could think I meant the 1st time at the beginning of the entire thing. What I meant was that it was at a point that made complete narrative sense at that point. It was when he was just coming back from using the "real world" bathroom, 10 minutes "IRL" translating to around 4 hours "in game," and those 4 hours are kept relatively consistent in all routes and in all cases he comes back it's for the exact same purpose. All other times Xander encounters loki aside from that one instance to give him the upgrades are Xander going to him.

The other point though is this is a literal deuce ex machina, both by definition and also by implementation (Implementation being the important part.) That's just universally agreed on as bad form in story telling. Jemini (talk) 03:27, 16 April 2019 (CEST)

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Ok, so, just started a different and more bold route to demonstrate kinda what I was talking about as a better general kind of route for this. Leaves Loki out of it while also adding the option for Xander to suddenly notice and think of this on his own.

• Give a definitely non kid-appropriate answer to July's question

Also, another thing, the reaction Loki's describing is how the reaction would be if all the stats were at 50. At 70-80, they would be uncomfortable with what you're doing but make excuses as to why it's actually Ok, and Xander wouldn't ultimately get into trouble. At the full 100, they would make the excuses and seem uneasy at first, but after doing it for just a bit they will have convinced themselves it's actually not just perfectly fine but also for the best somehow for you to be doing these clearly illegal things, and Loki would also know this.

This is why I've actually been kinda avoiding the routes with the maxed out stats, they really do make things a bit less interesting that way. The original idea I had in mind while making this route was to reveal just how far the stats would really go in what would be allowed, but never wound up writing it because of how boring the maxed stats route was starting to feel.

Also, even if Xander had nothing in terms of good stats, Loki would actually not warn him. He IS a trickster god after all, he may not actually be a god in this cannon, but that still speaks to what kind of personality he has and it would actually amuse him if Xander got into trouble like that. Also, he would respect Xander's intelligence enough for him to realize either that his penis is too big during the act or that he should think about the pregnancy after the fact.

(Sorry, it's just that I put quite a bit of care and effort into the character and world building here. Kinda has to be maintained in order to keep up the feel of the world.) Jemini (talk) 09:20, 16 April 2019 (CEST)

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Okay, whatever, I thought it would be an interesting twist to show that even with maxed stats, that Xander still can make mistakes, as this is all still new to him, and he still is human with flawed logic and hormones that can interfere with his thinking. To avoid a "Mary Sue" type character or situation, actually have him need the help of others and not be able to figure "everything" out for himself. I didn't and still don't see it as a deuce ex machina, mainly because it is missing some very key parts to qualify as this, first the character "Loki" has appeared in the story previously and has performed this very action previously, so it does not come out of nowhere, Second Loki didn't tell him "exactly" what rewards to buy, or how to distribute them for max points/capability, just dropped not so subtle hints as to which areas to look at, and in the end the choices were still Xanders. I see their relationship as more of a mentor/mentored relationship, at this time, thus the visit to see how he was doing again and a few not so subtle hints. Also as mentioned in a Talk previously, having maxed stats cause similar reactions to the rewards, lessens the value of the rewards, as all Xander has to do is max everyone's stats out and then he never has to buy rewards or experiment with them. I also thought it would be a fun little bit, to add to, as you describe "a bit less interesting" path, but whatever. Do as you wish. Telgar (talk) 02:11, 16 April 2019 (PST)

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Okay, my perspective about this whole thing. I am not at all against Loki intervening more in some branches of the story than others . . . so deus ex machina away (that's how it's spelled BTW). Now I do have some issues on how Xander is portrayed in Telgar's original text. Xander is shown as not thinking of things that are blatantly obvious to me . . . and he is many times smarter than me. Even with raging hormones, in the heat of the moment, he is still smarter and more in control than any human being has ever been. As a perfect human being, the ideas that one has about how he reacts to situations should be carefully evaluated so that his near super-human abilities aren't ignored. That said, I think there could have been much less of a re-write here. I know this is now Jemini's story more than it is mine percentage wise; but I think we can work out a more equitable resolution that maintains more of Telgar's original story while still satisfying the needs of the setting. What do you guys think? --Elerneron (talk) 14:41, 21 April 2019 (CEST)

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Well, I have to say that I don't see how having maxed stats would make him a "Perfect Human Being." I would see it as more of having "Maxed Super-Human Potential". Perfect implies zero flaws, which would be imposable to achieve with just stats alone, there would always be a flaw somewhere. Also yes he can think of things we can't and even conceive of and much faster than any of us, however, he is also still new at all of this, having had his abilities less than a day, he is a teen boy and currently so full of sexual hormones that most of his logical brain is probably shutting down. It is a scientifically proven fact that when our hormones kick in we start thinking more with our primal (lizard) brain than our intellectual one. Thus why we have post coitus guilt. Again he is new to all of this and has barely looked at the rewards, so he's not thinking of them as a path to get what he wants makes sense. His newness to the fact he is in a simulation and the short time he has actually had to analyze all the possibilities also leaves issues. Since he has gotten his powers, in this path, he has not slowed down to actually think, most of his actions have been more instinctual, than logical. So coming to a logical conclusion about his actions would be more out of character than him not. So despite the fact, he can think faster and more logically than the rest of us, he has not taken the actual time to think about it.

Also, there is the fact that in this path he is achieving, simply by manipulating people stats, the same things he should be achieving with rewards. It should take both the stats and the rewards to get what he wants. Maxed Love, trust and submission might make someone inclined to do sexual things with Xander, but there are still the taboos, which have yet to be removed by any rewards. The attempt at many of the acts this path is going towards should have the other characters, especially the older ones like Summer, and March, getting very uncomfortable, and once Xander started doing something with her young siblings, really start to freak out. Since the Holidays have been portrayed as a strong Christian family, then things like polygamy, pedophilia, sex out of wedlock, incest, etc should bother them if not freak them out. On the flip side, simply having the pass for these taboos won't guarantee the female would be happy to have sex with Xander, Xander will need to influence her stats as well, to cause her to become attracted to him. So in a sense, both the stats and the rewards are required in, most, situations for any willing sexual acts. With some exceptions for characters like Trish, who already possess the Taboos.

Since he has shown no inclination towards even looking at the rewards, and seems to think that simply manipulating their stats will get him what he wants, then it shows that in his current state he has not thought about the rewards or the consequences of his actions. To suddenly have him figure that out in the middle of a hormonal sex filled encounter, in my opinion, would be more out of character, as he has been established in this path, then having an experienced, and established, mentor-like character show up and ask, "Have you really thought all this through?"Telgar (talk) 07:25, 21 April 2019 (PST)

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I understand what you are saying. My problem isn't the direction you took the story at all. It is the degree that you took it in that direction. Chances are that he is not thinking of a lot of these things. If he were to screw up, however, he could talk his way out of just about anything he tried to do. He could out con Frank Abagnale for that matter. There are things he just wouldn't be stupid enough to try. If he went to fuck the baby, he would stop before he did so; knowing that he couldn't do it without hurting her. He knows that he wouldn't be stupid enough to do these things; and would be insulted that Loki thought so little of him to think that he would. Loki is also not terribly concerned about Xander getting himself in trouble locally . . . that would just be more entertainment for him. He is concerned about Xander more than he lets on for reasons that have not yet been disclosed in the story, but he's still just a game character to Loki. A little editing of the passage and it would be just fine. Show Xander feeling insulted when Loki insinuates he would actually knock up the little ones without making sure they were okay later. Have Loki show less actual concern and more of a casual amusement.

When Loki points out that Xander is likely to get in trouble, you have him say “What? Why would I be in trouble, I mean look at their stats, they all love me, and stuff.” That is very out of character. He wouldn't need further explanation. As soon as Loki mentioned it, the problems would become immediately apparent to him. A better response would be something like: “What? Why wou . . . oh, shit! Yeah. I wasn't thinking very clearly.” Then instead of saying: “Oh shit, I didn’t think of that.” a more in-character response would be: “I think I could have talked my way past all of that.” And after mentioning getting the little ones pregnant, he would likely be angry and respond something like: "You think I'd actually hurt them? What kind of monster do you think I am?! I know there's a way for them to safely give birth. If not I can just make them not pregnant. I'm not an idiot!"

That's just my view on things. The passage only needs a little editing (mainly Xander's side) and I think it would be fine. But like I said, this is more Jemini's baby than mine at this point; so I'm waiting for his reply. --Elerneron (talk) 17:19, 21 April 2019 (CEST)